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ymangolds
Post  Post subject: Shadows on tessellated edges  |  Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:26 am
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This is happened on several scenes in the past 2 days (guessing latest update related). When I first saw it:
Attachment:
triedges.jpg
triedges.jpg [ 211.57 KiB | Viewed 15477 times ]

My first thought was it had something to do with UV seams/edges, but then I remembered that those polys are quads so that couldn't be the case.
The problem was usually hard to notice so I ignored it, but when compositing a scene I saw the shadow pass:
Attachment:
triedges_shadow.jpg
triedges_shadow.jpg [ 200.33 KiB | Viewed 15477 times ]

The edge normals shouldn't be the problem either (I confirmed they should be smooth).
There's a chance it might have something to do with the problems (like anti-aliasing) that occur when the differences in a camera's near and far plane are really huge. I've noticed that FB has become much more picky about having that range really small recently. Here's a recent matte pass render (for a scene where the matte pass will be extremely important):
Attachment:
Sq02Sh06_Ani_Main_Fb.Matte.1294.jpg
Sq02Sh06_Ani_Main_Fb.Matte.1294.jpg [ 114.28 KiB | Viewed 15477 times ]

The near plane is .25 and far plane is 1000 which is the absolute min/max I could do (ideally a range from .25 to 150000 is needed so this will require me to utilize Vue's multipassing :cry: ), and though the edges in this render are pretty terrible, increasing the far plane any more makes things completely unusable. In simular scenes I did a while ago, the edges were fine with a much bigger difference in the near/far plane.


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Jan_Tomanek
Post  Post subject: Re: Shadows on tessellated edges  |  Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:58 am
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We have not those troubles on our scenes.
Please send us this scene (Delete all and leave there just this problematic object and another VERY far object to see your problem with Z.)

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ymangolds
Post  Post subject: Re: Shadows on tessellated edges  |  Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:40 pm
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Jan_Tomanek wrote:
We have not those troubles on our scenes.
Please send us this scene (Delete all and leave there just this problematic object and another VERY far object to see your problem with Z.)

Is there a way I can send a private msg to you with the link to the file?


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Jan_Tomanek
Post  Post subject: Re: Shadows on tessellated edges  |  Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:42 pm
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Send us link to our sales@aaa-studio.eu mail.

BUT CLEAN your scene as more as possible - just few object as I wrote you and without textures etc.

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ymangolds
Post  Post subject: Re: Shadows on tessellated edges  |  Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:58 pm
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Here's the scene stripped down:
Attachment:
Export_Sh02040_WIP_0003.zip [219.71 KiB]
Downloaded 303 times

You should be able to ignore any missing file references/plugins and still see the problem.
Render from 'Main" camera using shadow pass, and the edge shadows are the most visible on frames 690-699 or any frame after 700.


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Jan_Tomanek
Post  Post subject: Re: Shadows on tessellated edges  |  Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:50 pm
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All your problems are caused by SO HUGE scene and SO SMALL object.
You have scene in cm and distances in 8000. For this values there are limits of GPU on floating precission for such small (big) values.

So only solution are:
Move your scene to the enter (not 6000 from center) - but it will help just few...
Try to make better balance between scale x object size x scene size
If you have for example so small spaceship at some planet in "real" size - 1.000.000x bigger than spaceship it will never work. You have to fake planet size, or split scene to 2 scenes (foreground and background) and composite it.

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ymangolds
Post  Post subject: Re: Shadows on tessellated edges  |  Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:37 pm
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I really wish I could move 'scene center' to 'world center.' It's where it is because we have to render terrain in Vue and need to match cameras and lights (Vue can be ridiculously problematic if things aren't setup the way that Vue prefers them to be (well... it's ridiculously problematic regardless :oops: ... Fb needs a good way to multi-texture large scale terrains ;) ).

I guess I'll break scenes up into additional render layers. The reason I wasn't already doing that is the lack of a 'distance from camera' pass (distance from camera plane would work too). If automatic near and far plane is turned on, there's no way to accurately merge the different depth passes, so would have to use separate cameras for each render layer (or layer overrides), then run a bunch of math on each depth pass so that they match up, which is a huge pain in the butt.

Btw, although our scale seems wonky, it's actually very accurate (a lot of our assets were created using CAD data). The logic of it is to keep internal units to cm because a bunch of things in Maya break (like arc length nodes etc) if the units are set to anything else. We then 'pretend' 1 maya unit = 1 foot which gives nice values for foreground elements.


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Jan_Tomanek
Post  Post subject: Re: Shadows on tessellated edges  |  Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:59 pm
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I believe your data are accurate by CAD, but problem is, that float precision on GPU is just SINGLE, not DOUBLE, or TRIPPLE...
So in fact, when GPU render some very far and very small object, its world coordinates are for example 8000,00002 and next polygon is 8000,000003 but for GPU it's rounded to 8000,0001 boths... :cry:

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ymangolds
Post  Post subject: Re: Shadows on tessellated edges  |  Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:02 am
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Understood :ugeek: , was considering switching to a different 'pretend' scale like 1 maya unit = 1 meter (or maybe = 10 feet) next project anyway


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Jan_Tomanek
Post  Post subject: Re: Shadows on tessellated edges  |  Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:13 am
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Yes, it's better anyway, but it will not help for all issues. This Maya scale is just virtually as you wrote.
Problem is rendering EXTRA small object with EXTRA large object in one scene.

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